interesting thought experiment as to how to reinvent discovery in that situation. Because it’s dire now and would become even worse, but maybe that forces some creativity around what “social network” even means in the Masto context. Is it less Twitter, more Signal? More webrings2.0?
@luis_in_brief Mastodon private accounts are discoverable; you can read the profile information and so on. They just a) manually approve followers and b) post followers-only by default.
an account that by default has no content visible to search engines or casual browsers is not discoverable in any meaningful sense. That’s 100% the opposite direction from bsky, which is innovating on how to surface content to newbies w/ starter packs, lists, & filters.
Maybe private is a good direction! Maybe 🐘 should make a clean break from being a twitter clone. But that’s the implication: “private by default”, when you’re not already market-dominant, is not a *social* network anymore.
How do you get to know people if it defaults to private? I like the concept of private groups you can join or be invited to, like WhatsApp, Discord (etc) groups for "closed" social circles. When I joined Mastodon I knew nobody. How does one get get know people with private profiles but with whom you might share similar interests?
@luis_in_brief Ah so you're suggesting Mastodon could potentially be something like Signal or WhatsApp and, by default, be a private messenger (with encryption) that you then opt-in to on public posting?
@luis_in_brief *nod* i want social networks where i can communicate with people who have something fun or interesting to say, not social media where i passively ingest what a few celebrities produce en masse.
of course, i'm probably not a very profitable customer for ad-supported networks
@luis_in_brief more generally i just think panopticon culture is *really creepy* and i think we need to get out of it, not embed it into our social expectations
@brooke I'm mostly agreed philosophically, but from a product-management perspective, but you can't simultaneously build a twitter-style tool and be defacto DM-first. They're just completely different UIs, user expectations, ways of finding your friends, etc. So if Masto wants to build Signal or Discord on top of activitypub, that's fine! But that's an entirely different product than what they're currently building. And sadly there is no sign they understand any of that.
@luis_in_brief @brooke Are you familiar with using friends-only mode in Snap, Instagram, Facebook, or other platforms? It's not SecureDrop. It's just a more pleasant, personal system where you can be more vulnerable.
I'm 'somewhat disagree' since this is social media.
However, because the Fediverse can be a diverse place and I can see, based on the purpose of the instance, the admins might want to choose private by default and that is absolutely fine.
@Gargron The new Instagram for Teens thing that got announced today makes accounts private by default- but that's specifically for kids who use social media
@Gargron I think more (all?) social networks should be private by default. But you can't just do that by itself, you have to also add friction reducing useful mechanisms -- communities, "starter packs", and a robust "introduction" mechanism.
Strongly disagree. It's not real privacy and we should not pretend that anything on a social network is not available. Those that want/need privacy should be instructed to use proper, secure, group communication tools.
I feel like this should be a zero-default value that has to be explicitly set by the instance admin, and then explicitly set by the user during registration. Adding threads to the fedi has made Mastodon so much more viable for some users, but it's also made it an incredibly more homophobic and transphobic space as well. Preserving the ability for accounts to remain private by default seems really important, and also probably shouldn't be enforced on everyone.
I think a better change would be to dis allow the followers only reply option unless the replyer is followed by the person who made the original post. This would stop a lot of the invisible racist posts that are plaguing this system.
Luis Villa
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Luis Villa • • •Luis Villa
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •an account that by default has no content visible to search engines or casual browsers is not discoverable in any meaningful sense. That’s 100% the opposite direction from bsky, which is innovating on how to surface content to newbies w/ starter packs, lists, & filters.
Maybe private is a good direction! Maybe 🐘 should make a clean break from being a twitter clone. But that’s the implication: “private by default”, when you’re not already market-dominant, is not a *social* network anymore.
Evan Prodromou
in reply to Luis Villa • • •@luis_in_brief
Private accounts are *more* social. They're about connecting with people you know and care about, rather than broadcasting to the aether.
Fewer, deeper connections, and more comfort sharing real details about your real life.
hallenbeck
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •@luis_in_brief
How do you get to know people if it defaults to private? I like the concept of private groups you can join or be invited to, like WhatsApp, Discord (etc) groups for "closed" social circles. When I joined Mastodon I knew nobody. How does one get get know people with private profiles but with whom you might share similar interests?
Evan Prodromou
in reply to hallenbeck • • •hallenbeck
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to hallenbeck • • •Brooke Vibber :blobcatcoffee:
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •@luis_in_brief *nod* i want social networks where i can communicate with people who have something fun or interesting to say, not social media where i passively ingest what a few celebrities produce en masse.
of course, i'm probably not a very profitable customer for ad-supported networks
Brooke Vibber :blobcatcoffee:
in reply to Brooke Vibber :blobcatcoffee: • • •Luis Villa
in reply to Brooke Vibber :blobcatcoffee: • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Luis Villa • • •Luis Villa
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Bruce Elrick
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •I'm 'somewhat disagree' since this is social media.
However, because the Fediverse can be a diverse place and I can see, based on the purpose of the instance, the admins might want to choose private by default and that is absolutely fine.
BeAware :fediverse:
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Michael Bishop ☕
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Eugen
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Eugen • • •Tom Casavant
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Doctor Popular
in reply to Tom Casavant • • •Instagram makes teen accounts private by default
Casey Newton (Platformer)Evan Prodromou
in reply to Doctor Popular • • •Dmitri | 🇺🇦
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Tom Casavant
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Tom Casavant • • •Raphael Lullis
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Rainer 🇵🇸
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Rainer 🇵🇸 • • •@Rainer
> it's also made it an incredibly more homophobic and transphobic space as well
Has it? I haven't seen that. Are you seeing a lot of homophobic/transphobic content from Threads?
Since Threads users can't follow or @ anyone on Mastodon, I don't think we're seeing targeted harassment coming from there.
I'm not saying we won't; just that I don't see it right now. Then again, straight cis dude, wearing privilege blinders, fully acknowledged.
Jules 🍺
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •This would stop a lot of the invisible racist posts that are plaguing this system.