If you don't have children, you can answer for an imagined or hypothetical child, or for a child of your family or friends, or you can just skip the question.
I realize that these are common sense, but I get so, so, so many replies from people along these lines. I assume at least some of them are good faith; another segment are trying to be funny; and a final segment just want to play "gotcha" with every single post on the Fediverse.
I really enjoy when people share their thought process with me as they go through my polls. The threads can be really fun. But just having reply after reply telling me how wrong I am and how bad it is to post questions I think are fun and interesting really wears me down.
I was actually thinking of this earlier today. There are times I wish there was a Dark Evan polls. Something that forced us to examine our inner Dexter. But I came to the conclusion I like the fun and interesting polls and how they allow us to think without sinking into the doom scrolling that can be social media. I really appreciate these.
I would love my little cousins to be sports champions, hoping they would value fair play and hard work. They would have some sort of education too because sport careers end when people are still young.
My younger daughter has her masters in social work, and works at a school that serves mostly poor minority children. As a politician she’d be thoughtful about raising up our most vulnerable.
Then why did you ask which I would want most for my child? Maybe this is one of those trick questions where allistic people know they are supposed to intuit the context or subtext and “read between the lines.”
Seriously, if you meant to ask a question about the nature of the occupations, why did you instead directly ask us a question about our aspirations for our children’s achievements?
both political leader and CEO involve being constantly immersed in the worst aspects of humanity. Sports champion would be way too single-minded and grueling for my kid. She likes art and music, and entertainers at least get to express themselves and probably have some relaxing time between projects.
I said CEO, not because I'd want them to climb a corporate ladder, but because if they get into #entrepreneurship, which is a creative endeavor, and they're successful at it, then that's where they'll end up.
Superstar entertainer would have been my second choice.
My initial reaction was revulsion at all of the options, which says much more about how I feel about current political leaders than it does about my child.
Then I remembered that one of the problems with political leaders is that the worst examples are drawn to the position for the wrong reasons, and that what we need are people who genuinely want to find the best solutions.
On reflection, my child could be one of the good ones. Thus my choice.
Actually none of them. I don't care about end goals. I care that whatever journey they are onto they are happily becoming a better version of themselves.
@bhawthorne it's not a trick question but it might feel that way. "Would you want X for your child?" is another way of asking, "Do you think X is good for someone? Or is minimally harmful?"
Because for many of us, we want what's best for our kids more than almost anything, so it's a way to think about an option with the utmost care for the participant.
It may be specific to your family; if your child is passionate about lacrosse, sports might be the best option for them, if not for everyone.
@bhawthorne anyway, I'm sorry I replied to your choice not to answer the question. It's none of my business if you answer or not. I'm deleting my reply.
Thanks for clarifying what you meant. That is helpful, and I’ll go back and answer in that basis.
To be clear, I wasn’t trying to be difficult, but rather I was trying to be helpful by pointing out that this sort of cute but unclear use of metaphor can be problematic for many neurodiverse people. If you want your polls answered by as many people as possible, and not just the subset of people who think the way you do, you might want to ask the questions you actually want answered and not assume that other people can read your mind and intuit what questions you are actually asking beneath the metaphors!
I mostly enjoy your polls and do my best to enjoy them as thought provocations rather than as pedentry provocations.
Anyway, curious whether anyone has attempted to characterize differences in outcomes across these four, with caveat that it'd be hard to calibrate "levels" across them.
ps I chose CEO for my hypothetical child as I imagine this path would impose the least obligation on me. Perhaps this kind of thinking is why such child is hypothetical only!
wasn't really my intention to look for an explanation of the poll results (why the numbers are different) but perhaps subconciously I was -- I suppose they embed people's estimations of various life outcomes associated with each of the four paths. This is what I mean by your polls often being thought provoking. 😀
@mlinksva I mean, that's usually the intention. Sometimes I really want to find out how popular something is. Most of the time I'm hoping to spark thought and conversation.
went with sports because while I'd enjoy my hypothetical child to be a left wing political leader, I would not want them to be a right wing political leader.
I feel like CEO of a company would be least risky. As an American, I feel like people who are visible in the public eye (politician, superstar) are more likely to be targets of violence. And athletic careers have an expiration date. Being CEO of a small company is hard, but a mid-sized company? They would have a pretty good income, more privacy than the others, and they can transfer those skills to other jobs and companies.
I have four children, so I think I might answer differently for each child. However, here's how I'm thinking about it.
Every CEO I've met has been a giant d-bag. It seems to be a requirement of the profession. I hope none of my children ever have the kind of sociopathic traits needed to be a successful CEO.
It's hard to believe that there really are good, honest politicians. I feel like I would worry that my children, even if they went into politics with worthy goals and good ideals would eventually have to sacrifice those, and I wouldn't want that for them.
Personally, I'm not really into sports, but I don't object to them. I wouldn't want my kids to get into sports that have a very high risk of server injury, such as football (any variety), hockey, or boxing. But if one of my children was very skilled at a relatively safe sport, and that brought them a lot of joy, I'd be happy for that for them and would be proud of them. My nine-year-old is getting really good at chess. I think that counts.
I answered entertainer. Being an entertainer has a great capacity to bring others joy, which can be very fulfilling, I think. While there are aspects of being a "superstar" that can be negative, like loss of some personal privacy, by and large, I think it would be a fulfilling experience.
I put CEO. My dad was a CEO so it's what I know. Through his work he was able to bring joy and meaning to many lives. He wasn't corrupted by his position. He was loved by his colleagues. He was granted an honorary doctorate for his work which, as a kid who was expelled from school, was a great honour for him. We lived comfortably (but not extravagantly). He was able to retire quite early to pursue his passion for natural history. My childhood was one of happiness and I am a proud son.
It feels like there's a balance that has to be met for all these roles: the intrinsic rewards (satisfaction), the extrinsic ones (power, money), the personal harm (emotional, physical) and the chance to make meaningful change in the world.
There's also the question of what we want for our children: the agency to choose their own path, but also the chance for a fulfilling and meaningful life, and a minimization of danger, temptation to do evil.
These are only a few of the paths a person can take in life, although in our culture they're usually considered a path to "success." Some people were pretty enthusiastic about them; others though the harms of these roles vastly outweighed any benefits.
Of the four, I think the life of an artist is one that can have huge impact on others and be satisfying and enjoyable. Unfortunately the chances of becoming a "superstar" are low, but a life creating art can be rewarding in many other ways. It takes a lot of personal discipline to avoid the downfalls of fame though. I think both my kids have creative minds and big personalities, so I think this one would be my choice.
Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
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in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •I've already gotten a lot of responses along the lines of "whatever they want" or "whatever makes them happy".
That's an admirable rubric for making a decision.
Now, look at the list and pick the one that you think is most likely for them to want or to make them happy.
Adriano
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in reply to KB Sez • • •@kbsez https://cosocial.ca/@evan/113096217906117698
Evan Prodromou
2024-09-07 12:15:32
KB Sez
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in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Brian Hawthorne
Unknown parent • • •Then why did you ask which I would want most for my child? Maybe this is one of those trick questions where allistic people know they are supposed to intuit the context or subtext and “read between the lines.”
Seriously, if you meant to ask a question about the nature of the occupations, why did you instead directly ask us a question about our aspirations for our children’s achievements?
#ActuallyAutistic
Edward L Platt
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Steve Foerster 🌐
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •I said CEO, not because I'd want them to climb a corporate ladder, but because if they get into #entrepreneurship, which is a creative endeavor, and they're successful at it, then that's where they'll end up.
Superstar entertainer would have been my second choice.
Eyeshine
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •El Duvelle
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to El Duvelle • • •Dan Scott
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •My initial reaction was revulsion at all of the options, which says much more about how I feel about current political leaders than it does about my child.
Then I remembered that one of the problems with political leaders is that the worst examples are drawn to the position for the wrong reasons, and that what we need are people who genuinely want to find the best solutions.
On reflection, my child could be one of the good ones. Thus my choice.
Evan Prodromou
in reply to Dan Scott • • •Evan Prodromou
Unknown parent • • •Mark Mifsud
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Actually none of them. I don't care about end goals. I care that whatever journey they are onto they are happily becoming a better version of themselves.
If achievements come, they're just a bonus.
Evan Prodromou
in reply to Mark Mifsud • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Brian Hawthorne • • •@bhawthorne it's not a trick question but it might feel that way. "Would you want X for your child?" is another way of asking, "Do you think X is good for someone? Or is minimally harmful?"
Because for many of us, we want what's best for our kids more than almost anything, so it's a way to think about an option with the utmost care for the participant.
It may be specific to your family; if your child is passionate about lacrosse, sports might be the best option for them, if not for everyone.
Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Brian Hawthorne
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Thanks for clarifying what you meant. That is helpful, and I’ll go back and answer in that basis.
To be clear, I wasn’t trying to be difficult, but rather I was trying to be helpful by pointing out that this sort of cute but unclear use of metaphor can be problematic for many neurodiverse people. If you want your polls answered by as many people as possible, and not just the subset of people who think the way you do, you might want to ask the questions you actually want answered and not assume that other people can read your mind and intuit what questions you are actually asking beneath the metaphors!
Soliman Hindy
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •James M.
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •mlinksva
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •I mostly enjoy your polls and do my best to enjoy them as thought provocations rather than as pedentry provocations.
Anyway, curious whether anyone has attempted to characterize differences in outcomes across these four, with caveat that it'd be hard to calibrate "levels" across them.
ps I chose CEO for my hypothetical child as I imagine this path would impose the least obligation on me. Perhaps this kind of thinking is why such child is hypothetical only!
Evan Prodromou
in reply to mlinksva • • •@mlinksva thanks!
Are you asking why the numbers are different between the four options?
Yes, seeking minimum obligation is not often compatible with child-rearing.
mlinksva
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Evan Prodromou
2024-09-07 12:15:32
Ludovic :Firefox: :FreeBSD:
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Evan Prodromou
2024-09-07 12:15:32
Hoople
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Hoople • • •Hoople
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Dan Jones 🥥🌴
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •I have four children, so I think I might answer differently for each child. However, here's how I'm thinking about it.
Every CEO I've met has been a giant d-bag. It seems to be a requirement of the profession. I hope none of my children ever have the kind of sociopathic traits needed to be a successful CEO.
It's hard to believe that there really are good, honest politicians. I feel like I would worry that my children, even if they went into politics with worthy goals and good ideals would eventually have to sacrifice those, and I wouldn't want that for them.
Personally, I'm not really into sports, but I don't object to them. I wouldn't want my kids to get into sports that have a very high risk of server injury, such as football (any variety), hockey, or boxing. But if one of my children was very skilled at a relatively safe sport, and that brought them a lot of joy, I'd be happy for that for them and would be proud of them. My nine-year-old is getting really good at chess. I think that counts.
I answered entertainer. Being an entertainer has a great capacity to bring others joy, which can be very fulfilling, I think. While there are aspects of being a "superstar" that can be negative, like loss of some personal privacy, by and large, I think it would be a fulfilling experience.
@evan@cosocial.ca
hallenbeck
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •Evan Prodromou
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •sofia ☮️🏴
in reply to Evan Prodromou • • •eww. people are really fond of the worst option, huh?
sports champion is probably pretty unhealthy unless it's a mental sport maybe.
CEO makes you a state-capitalist crony and boss, which is morally corrupting, but probably not nearly as much as 'politician'.
superstar entertainer, may not be that great mentally, but given the money, i think they have a fair bit of choice what they'll get involved with 🤷.